SAGA council minutes 9 July 2012

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Minutes of SAGA Council meeting Held on Google Talk on 9 July 2012 at 20h00

Background information on various points included in past agendas.

Present: Steve Kroon, Francois van Niekerk, John Leuner, Paul Steyn, David Richfield Absent with apology: Ben Gale

Adoption of minutes of previous meetings

The minutes of the meeting of 2/4/2012 were accepted without objections. Proposed: Steve; Seconded: Francois

Next meeting

The next meeting was scheduled for 20h00 on 8 October 2012 on Google Talk.

Portfolio reports


John had nothing to report.

Membership secretary

Paul reported that SAGA members were now receiving the AGA member's edition newsletters.


Events since the last meeting were an internet tournament, the Joburg Open, the SA Candidates (which was held 2 weeks late), and the WAGC. There has still not been a SA Open. John indicated that people in Gauteng were not likely to arrange one this year, so Francois is to follow up in the Western Cape, starting with the Cape Town club. Chris Welsh will be attending the WMSG; Francois van Niekerk and Carle Joubert will be attending the Amateur Pair-Go Championships. In both cases, since there was no-one interested, no credit points will be deducted for participation.

Reports on completed items from previous meetings

Reports on new completed items

Unresolved items from previous meetings

No. 1208: SAGA's strategy and financial planning

David reported there had been no progress on this item.

No. 509: Maintenance of membership list

David and Paul reported there had been no progress on this item.

No. 909: Soweto initiative

David reported there had been no progress on this item. We again postponed making a decision on supporting this project, since we still do not have clarity on our financial situation.

No. 110: African Qualifiers for World Pair Go Championship

John reported there had been no progress on this item.

No. 810: Inter-country tournaments

Francois reported there had been no progress on this item.

No. 910: Liaison with cultural divisions

David reported there had been no progress on this item.

1.11: Letter to European Go Federation

David reported there had been no progress on this item.

3.11: Access to bank accounts and investments

John reported there had been no progress on this item.

5.11: Policy for SA Closed flights

Francois reported no progress on this item. It was decided unanimously that SAGA would pay for flight tickets for the SA Closed this year (2012). A decision on future years was postponed until we have clarity on SAGA's financial situation. (Paul suggested the train, but it was pointed out that this is a very time-consuming way to travel.)

7.11: Southern Hemisphere representation at SportAccord World Mind Games

This item is still waiting on the completion of item 1.11.

1.12: African Oza floating trophy

Francois reported there had been no progress on this item.

New items

2.12: Allocation of interest to various funds

John asked for a breakdown of membership fees by region since 2009 for the financial statements. It was decided that John and Paul would resolve this after the meeting.

Matters arising

Meeting Transcript

(me is Steve Kroon)

In the chat room: David Richfield (

8:01 PM David: You've been invited to this chat room! 8:02 PM Francois has joined

Paul has joined

Francois: hello

me: hi

John has joined

me: ok, that's all of us 8:03 PM francois - can you keep transcript - i'm in the browser window, less than ideal

Francois: will do

me: <- agenda 8:04 PM we have a quorum, and ben can't be here

well, I'm assuming that if you are in the group chat, you're actually here...

David: Righto!

Paul: I'm here

me: perhaps you just get added - so john, paul - please just indicate you're here, please

John: hello all 8:05 PM Paul: yes, I was added to the chat without having to accept anything, so even though I wasn't actually in the browser window at the time

me: Thanks. I propose we accept the minutes of the last meeting. Anyone to second?

Francois: second

me: (this is certainly the least hassle the group chat has been so far, so that's good)

No responses on meeting dates, so I'm assuming 8 October is fine.... 8:06 PM Paul: Too far ahead to be sure, but sound right to me :)

me: Which brings us to treasurer report: John - what's news?

John: I don't really have much news 8:07 PM I haven't worked on the Treasury stuff for quite a while 8:08 PM I don't have any updates for the action items 8:09 PM me: there are some outstanding issues with the 2009 statements under preparation, but when they are resolved, I think 2010 and 2011 ones should come out fairly quickly, since all the transactions are now in Gnucash

Paul: any news on the MemSec front? 8:10 PM Paul: Not really

me: ok. Francois - tourneys?

Paul: The AGA newsletter seems to be all sorted

Francois: ok, since the last meeting there has been an internet tourny and a joburg open

me: indeed - thanks to you and lloyd for sorting that. Note that we'll need to make a habit of updating the list with the AGA at the start of each year...

and the WAGC 8:11 PM Francois: the results were posted as blog posts

yes, and the wagc

recently the candidates also took place

after being delayed for two weeks 8:12 PM the only other thing i have to report at this stage is there hasn't been a sa open yet this year

John: how many CT players are there for the closed?

Francois: the wc/gauteng split is 3/5 8:13 PM John: do we have a date for the closed?

Francois: we will have to talk about flights for 5.11

me: heritdage day weekend, usually?

Francois: yes, i will look for the date 8:14 PM me: - 22 september

Francois: 22-24 sept

me: anything else, john? 8:15 PM while we're waiting: francois, anything else to report? 8:16 PM John: Ah, I won't be SA over that weekend 8:17 PM me: can I suggest we resolve how to handle that by email afterwards? 8:18 PM John has left 8:19 PM Francois: did john just disappear?

me: while we're waiting: david - any progress on any of your action items? (if so, just indicate which ones)

seems so 8:20 PM David: NO, sorry!!!

me: tried inviting him again, but he's labelled away now

David: :-(

me: francois: anything else to report on tournaments?

Francois: for the report? no 8:21 PM or for action items?

me: so other things that went around by email: just so everyone's up to speed

chris is the only SA rep going to the WMSG


David: Good for Chris!

me: and Francois and Carle are going to Japan for the Intl amateur pair-go 8:22 PM in both cases, they were the only interested people, so no credit point impact

David: Great!

me: i'm glad we got people.

Paul: The WMSG is usually a credit point deductible, not so ? 8:23 PM me: no - only been one WMSG before, and there weren't credit points deducted

Paul: Oh, no, wait, it's the WAGC I'm thinking of

me: the major credit points deductions were KPMC and WAGC

Paul: When are they held, again ?

me: in any case, I have an idea to replace the current fixed credit points deductions by a kind of auction system, but I need time to figure it out and write it up (unless someone wants to volunteer to help me with it ;) 8:24 PM Paul: And when are interim credit points normally due?

me: WAGC in May; KPMC usually october, I think. Surprising we haven't heard anything about it yet

Francois: i'll help with the credit point proposal, but by help i mean review and give comments

Paul: Sounds interesting! I might be interested, depending on time and how much it makes my head hurt... :) 8:25 PM me: heh

John has joined

David: :-)

me: hi john - welcome back

Paul: review and give comments sounds about my speed... we can discuss that offline later, I think

me: yes

john - did you have any more comments/questions on the tourney report? 8:26 PM John: I'm not sure what I missed

I won't be here for the closed if it's on the 22nd Sep

me: chris W going to WMSG; francois and carle going to Pair Go champs 8:27 PM re you missing closed: decided that should be resolved by email outside the meeting.

John: ok 8:28 PM me: how to handle is tricky. Konrad has opted to withdraw this year because he can't be here. (And similarly for Ben Gale in previous years...)

John: can we discuss the SA open now or is that later?

me: nothing on SA Open later

so you can say now 8:29 PM John: I have casually discussed having an SA open in Soweto with Welile and Sello

but at this stage they seem very disorganized 8:30 PM and I don't know if Andre and I have the stamina for a tournament soon

me: my experience with Welile and Sello is that if you want them to organize a SA Open in Soweto, you'll need to do most of it, I think...

John: Yes, that is the problem

David: Pretty accurate.

Francois: so should i send out a call for host and this years will possibly be hosted in the western cape?

David: And I'm a dead loss: I'll be in USA this time next week. 8:31 PM John: It will be great if it could be in the cape

me: francois: you've already sent out a call for hosts

David: Actually leaving on Thu. evening.

me: I think any arrangement we can make internally is fine

Francois: andrew previously indicated we would be willing to host, but at that point i was under the impression the joburg open would actually be sa open

me: I guess we can re-"doop" the Stb open of this year the SA Open

unless CT are willing to host an extra tourney 8:32 PM ah, ok - that's cool, then

chat to andrew first

Francois: i'll do that then

me: ok, leaving up to francois to resolve...

Anything else before the numbered items? 8:33 PM Since David and John have no progress to report, next up is Paul: any progress on your items?

Paul: Only Item I know of is : Mem DB

me: yeah - just that one

Paul: No progress on that, I'm afraid 8:34 PM me: ok

francois: progress on your front on any action items?

Francois: not really

only thing we might have been able to talk about is 5.11

in fact, we do need to 8:35 PM me: yes, that is the next item

Francois: cause i have to plan the sa closed this year

(with other items, no progress)

John: I think last year SAGA paid R1500 per person towards flights 8:36 PM Francois: john, do we know enough about the statements to be able to say if we can again?

me: Quick question: we do need to resolve John's participation fairly urgently - if he needs to withdraw because he's not in SA, is next in line CT or Jhb player? 8:37 PM John: We can certainly afford to fly people for this closed, it's the long term sustainability that's in question

Francois: next in line would be andre 8:38 PM ok then do i have approval to arrange flights for the 3 wc players this year?

me: OK, in that case, I propose we pay for the flights this year, and make a decision on future years once the statements are resolved. (Side note at John: we could require regional funds to contribute to their participants attending...)

Francois: with john's involvement of course? 8:39 PM me: well, I think we should vote on this...

Francois: seems logical

David: I think Steve's proposal makes sense.

Francois: i vote for flights this year

David: TL;DR: Aye 8:40 PM John: but limited to R1500 per person?

Paul: Didn't we say earlier we'd hold it in CT ?

me: yes - I agree

no - not with 5 ppl from Jhb

(no @ Paul)

Francois: i will have to check what the cheapest flights cost

me: surely not more than R1500/person 8:41 PM Francois: probably not, i don't imagine costs have gone up that much

Paul: I'm sure it will be quite a bit less than R 1500 per person, at least the cheapest flights

me: Paul: your vote?

John: I vote for that

me: and John?

Paul: So, if we can afford sending 3 people up, I agree 8:42 PM me: ok - there's your approval then, francois ;)

Francois: cool

me: 7.11 still on ice for financials 8:43 PM Francois: i just checked online for flights

me: and 2.12 still needs more background information from John

Francois: cheapest seems to be about 1600

John: So for 2.12

I will need a breakdown of membership fees by region

do we have something like that for 2009 onwards? 8:44 PM David has left 8:45 PM me: hmm - yeah, a check on mango gives me R1450

John: so probably best to book soon

Paul: There's always the train... 8:46 PM me:

Paul: I have membership lists from 2010, but the website goes back much further

me: not by region, but we should be able to work that information - it would be good for mem sec to keep that information on each person anyway

David has joined

David: Are we back here as well?

Francois: we were always here ;)

me: @david? are we back here as well? 8:47 PM Paul: I only have names, I'd need someone to match that to regions

David: Ah.

John: I can

I can't load that membership list right

Paul: The website ?

John: let me discuss this with Paul offline

Paul: cool

me: ok, cool

let me know if you resolve it so I can update the agenda item for the next meeting, pls

John: I'm not sure I know what 7.11 is about? 8:48 PM ok

me: at the moment, no southern hemisphere people are invited to those World Mind Games 8:49 PM despite the fact that we could put together a team as a hemisphere

not unlike there being a Europe team and a North America team

the idea is to ask them to consider having a Southern Hemisphere team

(assuming we don't get membership of the EGF - which is 1.11)

John: who is driving this? 8:50 PM me: no one, until david has done 1.11

David: :-(

John: so this is not an australian or south american initiative? 8:51 PM me: So as a parting shot (we're pretty much done), please attend to your action items (especially the old ones)!!!

John: no, it's our proposal to investigate it

David: Yes. Understood!

John: ok

Francois: yes 8:52 PM me: Francois: I'll discuss the credit point system revision tomorrow with you if we come up with anything new - Paul, we can chat a bit qk now?

Paul: yes, sure

Francois: kk

me: John, you're welcome to stick around, but it's just an idea for a proposal I want to make atm

Francois: i'll email this transcript to you steve

me: Francois: thx re transcript, c u tomorrow

Francois has left

me: thanks for showing, folks

Paul: Last question, is there any interest in looking into train as opposed to plane for travel ? I have heard that it is cheap and comfortable, as opposed to say bus, but I haven't looked too hard into this yet ? 8:53 PM John: thanks guys

me: Paul: we've done train for SA Open years ago

John: I guess it just takes long time!

me: issue is it takes like 24 hours to get to Joburg

Paul: Oh, wow, that long ? Didn't realise... guess that is fine for my friends who were going on holiday, but not for this... 8:54 PM Ok, cool

me: yep

David: Train isn't that much cheaper IIRC.

Paul: right