SAGA council minutes 8 October 2005

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Victor Chow Konrad Scheffler Sakkie Buys


David Richfield Reinhardt Messerschmidt


  1. Portfolio elections (president, treasurer, secretary, membership secretary).
  2. Discussion/clarification of duties for individual council members.
  3. Allocate terms (of varying lengths) to council members.
  4. Matters arising from previous council minutes.
  5. Mailing list.
  6. Internet tournaments.
  7. Website.
  8. WAGC points system.
  9. Teaching (schools projects; teaching material).
  10. Points raised by Stellenbosch club (See appendix A)


A quorum was not present.

Summary of discussion and email voting

Portfolio elections (president, treasurer, secretary, membership secretary)

Sakkie proposes Konrad for president, exresses his willingness to act as Treasurer Konrad expresses his willingness to stand as President Victor expresses his willingness to stand as President Victor nominates David as Secretary and Konrad as Membership secretary Konrad seconds Sakkie's nomination as Treasurer - Positions to be decided by e-mail ballot

Konrad was voted in as president, and suggested a list of portfolios. Reinhardt, David and Sakkie accepted their suggested portfolios. No opposition was made in the mailing list against the suggestion.

Voting for President

Konrad: Sakkie, Konrad, Reinhardt, Julius, David Victor: Victor.

Suggested portfolios

president: Konrad treasurer: Sakkie secretary: David membership secretary: Reinhardt.


Point skipped pending election of officers

Allocation of terms (of varying lengths) to council members

Victor explains that there is a new Council each year, and that all office bearers are selected annually. Two members have to resign each year. It is decided by ballot in cases such as the one we are in.

The council terms are for 3 years, but staggered such that 2 of the 6 members' terms expire every year. This year 3 extra vacancies arose for uncompleted terms and thus only 2 of the 5 new members have been elected for 3 year terms, the other 3 get terms of 2, 1 and 1 years. We still have to allocate who gets each term.

Konrad suggests tying term length to portfolio to save voting. Victor points out that a president is elected each year, making it impossible to tie term lengths to portfolios.

Matters arising from previous council minutes

The most pressing point was the Denso cup - Sakkie made contact with Nihon Ki-in and await their list of countries to be invited. It was decided that it will be hosted with the SA open in the Western Cape in 2006 There was some discussion about transport and accomodation for Soweto players, but decisions on that matter were delegated to Sakkie.

Mailing list

There is still disagreement about opening up the SAGA mailing list. Sakkie belives that it is necessary to have private communications, Konrad believes that we need a forum for open, formal council discussions, and that private email can be used for confidential matters.

Discussion is continuing on this matter by e-mail. There seems to be broad support for opening up the council mailing list to all who are interested in SAGA politics. Reinhardt suggested that there should be some mechanism to reduce noise on the list by collating suggestions by non-council members.

Internet tournaments

The proposal that regional tournaments be open to internet participants was rejected as impractical. The differing sizes and strengths of regions can cause problems with qualifications for national tournaments, even when adjusted McMahon scores are used. Victor is working on a proposal to fix this problem, and will submit it after his overseas trip. Konrad has made some suggestions on internet tournaments, to be discussed later.

Konrad, Victor, Sakkie and David support the creation of a calendar of SAGA internet tournaments.


The old website should be cleared of old information and link to Steve's website.

WAGC points system

Victor would like to have a ceiling on the maximum number of points that can be removed from a players WAGC points, namely two times the maximum annual points possible. Further, if a player were to win the WAGC, he should be sent again the next year, so that he would have a chance to defend the title. Konrad and Sakkie both support the "defending champion" suggestion, points system to be discussed further in the next meeting.


This point was suggested by Julius: deferred to next meeting.

Points raised by Stellenbosch club


Victor felt that the constitution was too long and complicated, and did not like the idea of delegating duties outside the council. Konrad said that Victor should come up with concrete suggestions about the constitution, and that delegation is useful to get more work done.


No firm decision taken. Everyone agrees that people should not be flown to the AGM. Sakkie has no problem with holding the AGM in the Western Cape, and says that in the past the first practical date was from March onwards.

Use of boards


Sets for Wizard's Den

Shipment of books and sets from Japan & Korea

All Delegated to treasurer

Harry's magazines

These are in the Western Cape's hands: currently stored by David (will soon be stored by Florian). Sakkie to come back with firm decision.

Hosting open and Denso

Already discussed

National club championship

Insufficient interest, Sakkie believes it is not the kind of issue to discuss at council level.

Follow-ups to Gauteng-WC tournament


Proposed constitution for Western Cape regional council

Disagreement about how membership of clubs should be treated. To be decided by president; deferred until election.


R80 full member R35 student R20 scholar Only new full members get the book. Victor suggests that regions have a fixed amount to pay, and collect fees from members. Will prepare more detailed proposal for comment.

Existence of special rates for scholars

They still exist.

Expiration of membership of members who have not paid for 2005


Membership Secrerary to decide, treasurer to take money

Appendix A: Points from the Stellenbosch club

  1. The first query is regarding the affiliation (institutional membership) of our club to SAGA. We submitted our constitution to SAGA and applied last year, but we either have had no official confirmation, or that confirmation has been displaced. We would like confirmation on whether our application has been accepted, and if not, what changes must be made in order that our club may be accepted. (Our current constitution is available at the above link).
  2. We would like to request that the next SAGA AGM be held in the Western Cape, preferably in Stellenbosch, considering the growth in SAGA membership numbers from our club.
  3. We currently have 10 boards on loan from SAGA for use in our school projects, as well as tournament play. We would like to apply to use these boards for regular club play as well.
  4. SAGA indicated last year that they may be willing to provide us clocks on loan - we requested 10. We would like clarification on this matter.
  5. In terms of promoting Go, a friend of mine works at a top gaming and hobby store in the Western Cape, "Wizard's Den". They do stock Go sets, but they are very poor quality, and terribly expensive. He has indicated they would be enthusiastic to stock the Korean sets that SAGA provides us with. Would SAGA be willing to provide them with stock, or provide direct contact details for the agent through whom SAGA obtains the sets? If this store stocks sets, we can easily include a flyer on SA Go with every set sold. A similar project in the Gauteng region may also prove fruitful.
  6. Regarding the latest shipment of books from Japan and Go sets from Korea, what is the current status; also will the book shipment include the remaining copies of "Introduction to Go" to be distributed to new 2005 SAGA members in the Western Cape?
  7. I have noted in the last few SAGA council meeting minutes a discussion about purchasing magazines. Are these the magazines that used to belong to Harry? If so, we would like clarification on whether SAGA intends to purchase them.
  8. Although I understand that there are discussions afoot regarding changing the structure of the WAGC representative selection system, we would like confirmation whether the 2005 Western Cape Open ( will be considered a quailfying tournament for the 2006 SA Closed, if the structure is not modified.
  9. We indicated to the previous SAGA council in response to an e-mail from Paul Edwards that our club would be eager to host the 2006 SA Open as well as the Toyota-Denso African Oza if South Africa was selected to host it, as it has. Since these tournaments take place in January traditionally, we would like to know as soon as possible if SAGA accepts our offer, and if so, what they would require of us.
  10. Our club has for a while considered trying to initiate a national club championship, with each club selecting a team to represent them, or a more generic national team championship. Yesterday we decided that such an activity should best be proposed to SAGA and left for them to further act on, as I am doing now ;)
  11. Similarly, the responsibility for arranging followups for the Gauteng-Western Cape showdown held in August (, will be delegated to the Western Cape Regional Council once it has been formed. (This one's just informative)
  12. Regarding the proposed new Western Cape Regional Council, it is planned that the council will be a SAGA-recognized regional council. As such, we submitted the proposed constitution to the previous council for feedback before we form the council. We have heard nothing further. The proposed constitution is available at Please let us know what changes SAGA would require to the constitution to recognize the regional council.
  13. A number of players have already submitted money for next years' SAGA membership to me. I would like to know what next years' membership fees are before I transfer the money.
  14. On a related note, does SAGA still have scholar rates, or have they been discontinued?
  15. If the proposed constitution changes passed, that will mean all players whose fees for 2005 were still outstanding have now lost their membership. Furthermore, all current members have to pay for 2006 before the end of this year. To our knowledge, our only player that would lose his membership immediately is Andries Kruger. We believe that SAGA should contact its members to remind them when their fees are due, but understand that this may be a difficult task in the short time remaining this year - I would like to suggest that the Treasurer for SAGA e-mail me (as treasurer for our club) regarding contacting our players, as well as about which members have already made payments for SAGA for 2006. Of course, once the post of Treasurer for SAGA has been finalised.