SAGA council agenda 4 April 2006/Complaint

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Victor Guang Chow to Sagacouncil Mar 7 Dear Council members of SAGA:

The fact is:

  1. The tournaments in 2003, both SA Open and SA Close was organised without proper notification period.
  2. I, as a defending champion, was not informed properly or given sufficient notification period.
  3. As a result, I am not included in both tournaments.
  4. The other missing player in 2003 SA Close is Julius, if my memory serves me right.
  5. When I raise the complaint to the TD of both event, Mr Paul Edward,the answer to me was, the tournament was rescheduled due to some members in the SAGA committee resigned. Therefore he organised the tournaments without inform everyone, and this is "for the good of SAGA and its members".
  6. I raised the complaint to the SAGA committee, but I was told to present some writing, and then after the written letter been sent, there are no answers thereafter.
  7. In 2004, I told SAGA council members, include Tristen, Paul, and other JHB Go players, that I cannot play in SAGA event due to the poor treatment I received in the previous year. Which again, I received no answer or resolution from SAGA committee that year again.
  8. In 2005, when I finally decided to let everyone in SAGA know what the council been doing to me, to answer the question that why I stopped play. Only after I raise this matter in public, I received some answers from the SAGA council of 2005 that the SAGA council of 2003 has already apologised for such bad organisation.
  9. Thus as a result, I lost my right to defend my title in 2003, and I could not earn any participation point for 2004.
  10. In both years, if I played, there is no problem for me to win the SA Champion. But instead of earning the point, I received 20% deduction.
  11. I think if the SAGA Council of 2003 declared and apologized for poor organisation, then at least they SAGA councils must do something to correct the mistake, but the council failed to do anything at all.
  12. I believe if SAGA council could not reverse the bad history, then at least must leave my WAGC participation point in frozen status, as there is a dispute going on.

I think this matter is quite clear, that is the council did not perform and thus affected individual's benefit, then at least some correction procedure must be taken.

Regards,

Victor Chow



Original Message-----

From: Sagacouncil@yahoogroups.com [1] On Behalf Of Konrad Scheffler Sent: 07 March 2006 01:27 PM To: Sagacouncil@yahoogroups.com - Show quoted text - Subject: RE: [Sagacouncil] WAGC Points Complaint

Dear Victor,

Thanks for providing more details. I should point out that the current council is new, and most of us were not active in SAGA (or even members)

at the time of this dispute. I do remember some angry emails going around in 2005, but they hardly provided a summary of your case. The only thing I know for sure about the matter is that no one seems to agree on the details of what actually happened, so it seems strange that you object to being asked for your side of the story.

As for your accusation of "differential treatment", I don't see what you mean. This is the first time the current council has been asked to make a decision on matters relating not to the present situation but to an incident that occurred three years ago and in which most of us were not involved. It is also the first time we have been asked to adjudicate a dispute.

I'll look at your statement in detail and may ask for further clarification later. Will the other council members also please do the same?

regards, Konrad

Konrad Scheffler to Sagacouncil Mar 8 Thanks Victor, that is useful information.

On Tue, 7 Mar 2006, Victor Guang Chow wrote:

> 4. The other missing player in 2003 SA Close is Julius, if my memory > serves me right.

Julius, could you please comment on this? Did you receive adequate notification of the dates of the SA Closed in 2003?

> 6. I raised the complaint to the SAGA committee, but I was told to > present some writing, and then after the written letter been sent, there > are no answers thereafter.

Does anyone know whether we have a record of this letter?

> 8. In 2005, when I finally decided to let everyone in SAGA know what > the council been doing to me, to answer the question that why I stopped > play. Only after I raise this matter in public, I received some answers > from the SAGA council of 2005 that the SAGA council of 2003 has already > apologised for such bad organisation.

Does anyone know whether we have a record of this apology?

regards, Konrad


Konrad Scheffler to Sagacouncil Mar 8 Some input from Tristen - thanks.



Forwarded message ----------

Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2006 09:11:43 +0000 (GMT) From: Tristen Taylor To: konrad Subject: RE: [Sagacouncil] WAGC Points Complaint

Hi Konrad,

I remember this issue somewhat. If memory serves me well, there was a general apology for the lack of warning. Nothing specific to Victor, and the Council decided that the points should stand.

There was a debate around an email sent out. Paul states that he sent it out in time, Victor said he never recieved it. There should be a record on the SAGA yahoo group.

Leander kept records at the time. He may have been of help.

Cheers,

Tristen

Leander Gaum to Sagacouncil Mar 8 I remember it like Tristen.

The only reference I can find among my old minutes is in the minutes of 25 Nov 2003: " a4. SAGA to apologise for the late announcement of the SA Open tournament."

-Leander

Reinhardt Messerschmidt to Sagacouncil Mar 8

There was a post to the SAGoAssociation mailing list on 19 Sep that the 2003 SA Closed had been moved to 24 Oct:

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/SAGoAssociation/message/268

There was no attachment that might have caused its non-delivery.

A reminder was sent a few hours before the first round:

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/SAGoAssociation/message/295

Victor, if you want my support for a decision on the 2003 SA Closed, you'll have to point out the organisers' negligence here, because I don't see it.

(Sipho was the other missing player, Chris was the TD:

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/SAGoAssociation/message/298 )



The 2003 SA Open announcement was made on the Thursday (20 Nov) before the Sunday (23 Nov) the tournament was held:

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/SAGoAssociation/message/300

There was a problem with delivery, apparently due to an attachment:

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/SAGoAssociation/message/301

Victor, I agree that this was insufficient notice, but how do you suggest we rectify it? All I can think of at this stage is to issue a formal apology (if one hasn't been issued already) and to add "official footnotes" to the results. Would this satisfy you?

Reinhardt

Victor Guang Chow to Sagacouncil Mar 8

Dear Reinhardt:

Thanks for your effort to find all necessary facts.


I can only say that, I was only received the information of the tournament on the Friday evening from Mr Paul Edward that the 1st round had started already, and he asked if I can play the following day. If Chris was the TD, then clearly I have never received email from Chris or phone call from him regarding the tournament.


I have spoken to many people after that weekend, as there are absolutely nothing I can do to change the tournament schedule for that weekend.


I still believe my right to defend my title was ripped off by the “negligence” of the SAGA and the tournament organiser. I think my request is base on fairness ground. Official apology is necessary, but SAGA’s completely ignorant in the following year (2004) is another issue. The add-back WAGC points which is also necessary, as this was taken away by incorrect action, and the direct result is that I cannot play in WAGC due to this kind of things. Only apology will not compensate the lose on my side.