Qualification system proposal 2007

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Andre's proposal

Idea: Entry/seeding based on performance.

Candidates draw schedule

In round 1 you have

  • game1: seed 1 vs seed 8
  • game2: seed 2 vs seed 7
  • game3: seed 3 vs seed 6
  • game4: seed 4 vs seed 5

Then round 2

  • game5: winner g1 vs winner g3
  • game6: winner g2 vs winner g4
  • game7: loser g1 vs loser g3
  • game8: loser g2 vs loser g4

And round 3

  • game9: winner g5 vs winner g6
  • game10: winner g7 vs loser g6
  • game11: winner g8 vs loser g5
  • game12: loser g7 vs loser g8


The top 4 seeds in any years' Contenders are the 4 highest placed returning players from the previous years' Contenders (If there are no, or insufficient returning players, then the seeded slots for which there aren't players will be filled based on Qualification Tournament placement e.g. if there were 4 Qualification tournaments, and no seeds (no returning Contenders), then the 4 Qualification tournament winners would be the 4 seeded players). All remaining returning players from the previous years' Contenders are seeded through to day 2 of the Candidates. If there are less than 4 automatically seeded into day 2 in this way, then the remaining seeds in day 2 of the Candidates will be filled according to placement in the regional Qualifying Tournaments e.g. Qualifying Tournament winners in order of SAGA rating, therafter 2'nd positions in order of SAGA rating, thereafter 3'rd positions, and so on.

8 players in day 1 of the Candidates are selected to play each other based on tournament performance in Qualifying Tournaments. The top 4 in the Candidates' day 1 go through to fill remainder of the 8 slots in day 2.

Qualifying Tournaments proposal

Any club which participates in the SAGA ranking system, and submits regular game results, may host Qualification Tournaments. These Tournaments will be recognised as Qualification tournaments if they fulfil the following conditions:
1) The tournament is a 1-day, 3-round MacMahon tournament.

Steve: This excludes the SA open. Is there a reason to limit this to 1-day tournaments, or 3 round tournaments, since there won't be direct comparison of MMS anymore, jsut comparison of position? I think just limiting it to MacMahon should be fine (perhaps "at least 3 rounds"?)
Andre My thoughts were to have the qualifying tournaments have equal weighting. A 6 round SA Open would indeed be a better qualifier for the SA closed, but how would we weight it against the regional qualifiers? I have kept the SA open and SA closed seperate for now.
Steve: Well, I think it's better to include the SA Open than exclude it totally (even if it weighs the same as a regional tourney). If you changed this requirement purely to McMahon (or removed the requirement totally, which is even better in my opinion), the SA open would be weighed the same as any other qualifying tournament. IF it was hosted by an appropriate club.

2) The tournament has to have at least 2 players within the top 18 rated players on the SAGA rating list of players eligible to qualify for the Candidates (i.e. excluding players seeded directly into the Contenders).
3) The SAGA tournament director needs to be notified at least one month before the tournament takes place, to ensure that dates do not clash, and check whether the tournament could be eligible. (Eligibility can only be confirmed once tournament participation is available, however all 4 current Regional Qualifiers - Joburg, Soweto, Cape Town and Stellenbosch - were easily stronger than the requirement). The SAGA tournament director will also arrange for notices of tournaments to be distributed if information is received in good time.
4) The tournament is open to all players.
5) The bar for Qualifying Tournaments should be set so that anyone with a reasonable expectation of winning the tournament has the opportunity to do so. Tournament directors are requested to please discuss the bar for their tournament with the SAGA tournament director. All players starting above the bar start with a MMS of 0.
6) Games above the bar are to be even games with White receiving 6.5 komi. Handicaps for games below the bar are at the discretion of the relative tournament directors, however historically handicaps have been determined on the basis of MacMahon score between the players minus 2. For handicap games White receives a komi of 0.5.

Steve:I'd suggest leaving the komi up to tournament directors, once again. If Joburg want to run the open with auction komi, I say by all means, let them.

Andre Again trying to standardise tournaments. I don't want there to be a situation where for whichever reason someone can claim to have gotten into the SA closed due to an unfair advantage. Hence I tried to bring some SAGA standard into it. These rules are the same as SAGA has been using for a long time. Komi might change to 7.5 at some stage though, depending on international competition standards.
7) Tournaments use Japanese scoring, with thinking time of 1 hour per player plus 15 stones per 5 minutes byo-yomi.

Steve: Ditto here. Why limit clubs to this way. What if a strong PE contingent who only know Chinese scoring should arise? And I've touched on the time issue before.

Andre Keeping the qualifying tournaments standard again. If the PE contingent wishes to play Chinese scoring, they should let us know, and the rules could be amended at that time.
8) Clocks will be started at the appointed starting time of each round and players who do not arrive within 45 minutes from the start of each round will forfeit the game.

Steve:Note that this prevents any club holding an internet tournament with current servers, since you can't start the clock ahead of time in this scenario. In any case, considering how tournaments are often held in SA, perhaps this is again over-strict, too much red tape, and once again a possibly unnecessary restriction on the tournament director.

Andre These rules are lots of red tape. In reality, if a regional tournament director wishes to run his tournament slightly differently (on the internet, or using Chinese scoring or whatever) then I, and I'm sure whoever takes over as SAGA tournament dude after me, can be accomodating. These rules are based on how the SA Closed (Candidates and Contenders) will be run, hence it makes some sense to run the qualifiers for these events with similar - or exactly the same - rules.

Qualifying into the Candidates

Candidates and reserves will be selected for the Candidates tournament based on performance in the regional Qualifying Tournaments. Placings within each tournament are decided by MacMahon scores with SOS as tiebreaks. All eligible Qualifying Tournaments are considered of equal strength. Entry into the Candidates will be based on placing within any tournament, and thereafter for equal placements (e.g. to compare winner of tournament A with winner of tournament B) by SAGA rating strength in accordance with the following example: (example thanks to Steve, modified by Andre)

Assume autoberths have been decided and contain: Victor, Ben, Konrad, Julius, Lee Changho, Yoda Norimoto, Cho Chikun, and Go Seigen

Regional Tournaments:
(MMS in brackets)
Cape Town:
1 - Konrad (3)
2 - Andrew (2)
3 - Bernard (2)
4 - Steve (2)
5 - Jaco (1)

1 - Andrew (2)
2 - Jaco (2)
3 - Bernard (2)
4 - Konrad (2)
5 - Lloyd (2)

1 - Victor (3)
2 - Ben (2)
3 - Cheng (2)
4 - Tristen (2)
5 - Andre (2)

1 - Paul (3)
2 - Ben (2)
3 - Sipho (2)
4 - Welile (2)
5 - Julius (2)

For tournament winners, for MMS=3, under consideration, we have Konrad, Victor, Paul, but Konrad and Victor are pre-qualified, so Paul qualifies as only remaining player with 3 wins. Andrew is next to qualify based on his first place in Stb.

For the people who came second in each tournament, Ben and Jaco remain, but Ben is prequalified, so Jaco is next qualifier.

For the people who came third, Cheng (3d) is rated higher than Sipho (1k) who is rated higher than Bernard (2k), hence in order Cheng, then Sipho, then Bernard enter.

The date at which players ratings are taken for comparison for entry into the candidates, will be at a time after the final qualifying tournament is completed, but before the candidates draw is announced.


Rules fleshed out (see above) however Chris' comment and reply kept for reference. Andre 08:08, 23 January 2007 (EST)
Please explain how the figure of 18 was chosen? --Chris Welsh

It was a figure chosen by looking at the SAGA rating table at the time. We want a qualifying tournament to have enough strong eligible players (by eligible player I mean someone who is eligible to compete in the SA Closed) to set a standard level which the tournament must meet, or be stronger than. At that stage 18 was the number of eligible players at 2k or stronger I think. This figure is not set in stone, and can change, as long as qualifying tournaments remain strong enough. Andre 16:00, 22 January 2007 (EST)